Podcast Transcript - Episode 0023 - Finding Refuge in Functional Drinks with Jesse Frances

Welcome to the Professional Drinkers podcast, brought to you by Choosesunrise.Co.UK. I'm Janet Hadley and this is for you. If you're an HR professional, a business owner or a leader who'd like to explore the drinking culture in your workplace, I'll bring you lived experience, stories, expert views and tips for creating an alcohol safe workplace without killing the buzz. Hello and welcome to the Professional Drinkers podcast. Welcome to 2024. I wonder how many people listening are doing dry January? It is the most popular time to stop drinking, and if you're an HR manager and you haven't got anything in your wellbeing provision about going sober or taking a break from alcohol, you are missing such a great opportunity to improve and support the well being of so many of your colleagues. So it isn't too late. So make sure you head to choose sunrise and download our 50 ideas for sober, inclusive events. Or even go to our HR page and sign up to our portal of resources. For HR managers, there is an absolute wealth of information, free webinars, downloads and pdfs to help you get started on this journey of adding alcohol to your well being programme.

And when I say adding alcohol, what I really mean is removing alcohol in order to improve the well being of your colleagues. And really, it's about being inclusive and being really supportive of people who are choosing not to drink alcohol and making it easier for them. Normalising that choice not to drink in the workplace. We have the potential to reduce alcohol harm so, so much by making some small changes in the workplace. And as you can probably tell, this is my absolute passion and I'm really delighted, actually, that I've got employers in my network now who are really excelling in this space and the clients that I'm working with are doing fantastic things and really innovative as well. So, virtual mocktail making. I've been invited to host a panel later this month where we'll be talking about different people's journey to sobriety within their workplace. I run sober, curious societies for employers, where colleagues come together and share their experiences and support each other in their ambition to either reduce or stop drinking alcohol. We've got bookings for tea, total tastings in the workplace. We're doing webinars. And of course, what I really wanted to talk about today was a little bit about our cultural audit.

So, as you probably know, if you're a regular listener, I run the Alcohol Safe workplace accreditation programme and I wanted to just take a moment just to talk you through the very first step in the process of becoming accredited. So for a very small investment of just, it's 300 pounds, plus that you can get a really in depth cultural audit for your organisation. And what we do when we come in is we review four key areas. So we look at your policy around alcohol, but also we look at policies around well being and we look at things like bullying and harassment policies, gifting, hospitality expenses, and have a really broad look at how alcohol is treated in your organisation. So it's not just about having a policy, it's thinking about it in a broader sense of what messages are people in your organisation getting from the top about alcohol. We also look at what education you have available. Most employers will have a few bits on their intranet, maybe provided by their third party, kind of EPA or something like that, and we'll get a holistic look of what is available for people to educate themselves about alcohol.

Then we'll take a deep dive into what support for individuals is out there and what it feels like to be an individual who is worried about their alcohol intake in your company. What happens when you go onto the intranet and type alcohol? Do you get a punitive policy that tells you which disciplinary process to use if you're caught drinking, or does it actually direct you to confidential and compassionate support? And then the final piece is pulling all of that together and looking at the overall culture. One of my favourite things to do is interviewing the senior leadership team and understanding how alcohol is used as a reward. For example, looking at things like expenses and what limits, or perhaps there are no limits on alcohol. There might be thinking about what choices people are offered at workplace events, the number of workplace events I've been to where I've had nothing to drink but water. If you don't drink alcohol, the list goes on. So it is a very thorough assessment of how the alcohol culture manifests in your organisation and you actually get a score for each of those areas and then the overall score is presented to you, along with a very detailed action plan against all twelve of our standards that need to be met to gain the accreditation.

And that action plan is handed over to you with no strings attached. You can do the work in house, you can employ another third party to do the work, or to support with some of the work, or you can do a combination of things. And what typically happens is for a smaller organisation, they want things to be done for them and we can contract with you to come in and do the education, do the line manager training, write the policy, whatever it is that you need. Whereas for larger organisations, I tend to work on a more consultation basis with a day rate, and I might come in and consult with your LND team, for example, to help you develop your own in house training around this, which is then yours to keep forever. So there's different ways to do it. And there's quite a few household name employers who are now getting really close to achieving this accreditation and I'm super excited to be able to announce some of them. And I've got a bit of press interest as well. So it's not too late for you to be in the first wave if you think that this could be something for you.

And ultimately, what that is going to give back to your business is a badge that says, we are an alcohol safe workplace. We want to attract and retain the very, very best top talent because we are inclusive of everybody, whatever they choose to drink. And when we consider that 39%, yes, 39% of 18 to 24 year olds are tea total, that is a huge population of people who you definitely want to be targeting to come into your organisation. And believe me, as someone who has been an employee who drinks and an employee who is sober, I get about three times as much done since I became sober. So, yeah, I definitely would recommend employing sober people. They will cause you a lot less trouble, fewer grievances, fewer absences, greater productivity, better mental health, better engagement. I mean, the list goes on. So if that's of interest, get in touch. We've got loads of things going on this year. We've got events upcoming, so every Friday. Sorry, not every Friday. The first Friday of every month. We are doing a webinar all about the alcohol safe workplace accreditation. So if you want to find out more, you can just head to eventbrite and search for either choose sunrise or alcohol safe workplace and get yourself booked onto one of those events and find out more.

So, on to our guest for the I'm really, really delighted to welcome Jessa Francis de la Rosa, as she's called. She goes as Jessa Francis, but I love her full name, Jessa Francis de la Rosa. I mean, what a name to grow into. So, Jessa is a non alk beverage expert and a consultant. She has a us military veteran background. She's also a writer, a wellness coach and a mother of three. So a little bit like me, really wears many different hats. She's really passionate about helping others to live a mindful and authentic life and to own their relationship with alcohol and their habits. And what I think is really interesting about Jessa is she describes her superpower as being able to have a conversation with you and ask you a few key questions and then make a recommendation for an alcohol free drink that you will love. I just think that's fantastic, isn't it? So, I hope you enjoy this little exploration into Jessa's relationship with alcohol and how her time in the military played into her drinking habits, which I'm sure very many people who listen will be able to relate to. So enjoy.

Oh. So welcome to my guest. This week. We have Jessa Francis on the line all the way from the other side of the pond. And Jessa, do you want to just say a few words to introduce yourself?

Yeah, absolutely. I am honoured to be very excited to be a part of your network and just getting to know you and it's been lovely. I run a small business. My website is called Intoxicated World. I work in a few different ways. The main way is, for example, I'm currently helping a new restaurant build an all alcohol free beverage programme. So we're building twelve non alcoholic cocktail options and I'm helping just the hospitality, food and beverage industry get on board and capitalise on all of these amazing products. And mostly it's about education, helping them understand what brands are available, what the product market fit is for them. Pricing functional drinks is a big one because they're so popular, people are starting to just add that to their menu without saying pregnant women shouldn't necessarily drink this. There's a lot of education that goes in and then there's triggering and there's products that don't taste anything like anything. That is the traditional.

Yes.

Just inclusivity in general, helping businesses make their way and navigate this new space and these new products.

Yeah, it's a great idea for a business because as the sober revolution gathers momentum, fueled by people like us, probably, but it really is gathering momentum, there's no doubt about it. And there's a huge rise in flexi drinking in the UK. That's what we call it when people, they still drink alcohol, but they might have, like, one or two beers and then have an alcohol free beer because they don't want that third one because they've got to get up in the morning. So bars and restaurants are really struggling, I think, to understand how to tap into that market. And actually, here in the UK, I'd be fascinated to know if it's the same for you in the States, but there's quite a few barriers to entry. So, like, the distribution networks are kind of all tied up with the alcohol companies, so all they're really getting their hands on is, like, the alcohol free version of a big brand, which is generally quite rubbish, to be honest. Is it the same over there?

Number one problem? Yeah, because the small brands can't break into these big distributors and even the big distributors that are trying to get on board, they're not educated and they're picking products that are not that great and people are being disappointed. The distribution thing is a big issue and because the economy is just not so great, a lot of these smaller brands are not getting the investors that they really need to grow to scale. And I see this being a slow issue, but I do see the light at the end of the tunnel. I do see a complete and massive shift happening by the end of, I would say, like, 2025. I would say most places are going to have a non alcohol option, the same way that there is gluten free and vegetarian.

Yeah, I agree. I think that there definitely will be. I think the question is whether we'll get the benefit of all this huge entrepreneurial outburst that has been in this sector, or whether we're going to end up with the equivalent of what Beck's blue in the UK, which is literally the worst alcohol free drink in the world.

Yeah, no, not great. Well, that's kind of the hard part over here. America, as you know, this massive country, is filled with people that are still new to this sober, curious, mindful drinking, sober drinking lifestyle and all the products and everything. And they're going out and they're trying the one or two options that are there and distributors have bought in and gotten a couple of options and they're like wines that are just grape juice, they're beers that are just not good.

Yeah. Watery and pasteurised, that one spirit, and.

It'S usually like seed lip, and they're like, well, yeah, I've tried alcohol free.

And I don't like it.

Right.

It's a shame.

So that's another part of my business, is I actually give free consultations to one on one consumers looking to find their product so that people can. They'll come to me and say, hey, I traditionally loved margaritas, but I'm afraid it's going to be triggering for me. But I still want something citrusy and fun and I can easily say, here's the rtDs, here's the spirits, here's a couple of different recipes to get you started, because I've tasted and tried everything. Products.

Well, do you know, I didn't know you did that. And I think I got a couple of new clients who were doing my 101 days to sober course who signed up this week? I was thinking, let's get you to speak to them and get them a really good alcohol free alternative right at the start of that journey. It might really help them. That'd be amazing.

That's the hardest part.

Right?

Non alcoholic bottle shop. Sachet, which is a big shop. People walk and they think it's a liquor store. It's full.

Yes.

And people would come in and they would be overwhelmed. Like, where do I even begin? And I did sachet tour and I've done that tour a thousand times. It took them from category to category. This is hemp infused. Here are adaptogens. Here are one for one replacements. Here are botanicals. The rtDs, the beers, the wines. Alcohol remove versus alternative. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like walking encyclopaedia.

I love it. Absolutely love it. Yeah, I love it.

So looking for the right thing, that's what I've been doing for the last couple of years, is helping people navigate this space and find what they would really like.

Yeah. Oh, that's fantastic. What a brilliant service. I love it. But I'm going to bring us back to a little bit more about how you ended up here. So nobody wakes up in the morning and decides to have an alcohol free consultation business without a bit of a story to tell. So let's find out a little bit more about what happened first. So tell me a little bit about your drinking history when you started drinking and even when it started to feel like a problem.

Absolutely. So I grew up country bumpkin in the middle of nowhere. Grew up on a farm, very blue collar background. Both my parents were construction workers. Okay, so if anybody knows about that space, a couple of beers after work is standard. Unfortunately, for my father especially, it wasn't like one or two beers. It was twelve. But I never saw it as a real issue. I, of course, at that time, didn't understand how bad it was for his body. He managed it very well. And right after high school, I joined the military and got introduced to the military drinking culture. And I'm 18 two weeks after high school. I had drank a little bit in high school as most teenagers. Um, so I went into the military and I got stationed in Montana. Okay, if you know where that is on the map, it is this massive state on the very top western side. And there's nothing. It's plain. And one restaurant and one little grocery store. There's like nothing to do out there. So what did I do but have house parties beyond that, live in dorms, like in the military, you join in and you're living in a dorm.

Everybody goes to work and everybody wants to be cool and have fun, and they go to the dorm room and what do they do but get completely trashed? And I remember at one point I was wearing overalls and I fell over the couch, stood up, and my overalls did not come up with me. All these embarrassing moments.

Yeah.

Luckily, I was kind of by motherhood. I became a mum and had three children and it didn't appeal to me whatsoever. I'm mommy until my kids got older. They're all in school, and then I get introduced to mommy wine culture.

Oh, yeah, we have that loud and proud in the UK just the same.

Yes. And what happens after that is you wake up every morning with this splitting at no motivation. The house starts filling with unfolded laundry.

Oh, yes, I've definitely been there.

Yeah. And then you gather with all the other moms and sit outside and complain and drink.

Yeah. It's really just like baffling. When you look back on it, just think, why did I do that? My life could have been so much happier.

Yeah. And then it just becomes gossip and just being. You feed off one another like, oh, my husband's and, oh, my kids and that teacher and da da da da da. And it just got worse and worse. And luckily, I don't know what I would say. Luckily I ended up getting divorced and I kind of got torn away from that. And I ended up going back to school and got remotivated and vigorous and wanted to. I actually have a degree from the University of Aberdeen in Scotland. And I pulled away and started this whole new path. And anyways, one day leads to the next. And this very strange thing, I came back to the States, I didn't have a job, couldn't get a job. And I'm a mother of three children. My ex has our kids because I'm trying to make my way in the world, and I start working something called taskrabbit. I'm not drinking very much, but I am drinking. And this task rabbit is basically like, people will hire you to do things they don't want to do. Grocery shopping, building a new dresser, helping them move or pack yard work, et cetera.

Okay.

And I got hired by Emily Hines to paint her living room.

Okay.

And so I go in and I'm painting her living room. I'm like, yes, I have this degree. I just came back. I'm prior military. I'm just figuring things out. And she's like, well, I'm opening up a non alcoholic bottle shop. And I could really use somebody like you to help me. And I was like, okay. So I interviewed, got the job, and for years I had been thinking about wanting to be healthy from the military. I'd been physically fit and very active and doing all of this good stuff for myself, working on healing and all of those things, but then hindering myself massively because of the drinking. Like, everything good that I was doing for myself, I ended up like, might as well.

I'm just going to interrupt your story for a minute to ask you about the military for a minute, because you've got to be in optimum health, haven't you, to stay in the military. I mean, it's a physically demanding job. How do you think that the people who are in charge can kind of. Why is this such a blind spot for alcohol as being. It's undoing all of that health and fitness stuff.

It's a great question, Janet, because drinking in the military, and I think they're just, for some reason, just now, they're starting to catch on.

Okay. Yeah.

That alcohol doesn't help. PTSD. Shocker. And it's the same thing as, oh, woe is me, I'm so stressed out as a housewife. Let's get together and chat and drink wine. It's the same thing. I've had this horrible long day at work. I'm covered in grime, get me my beer. In the military, I've had this long day. I've gone at it, I've served my country, I've worked out, I've done this and now let's go have a good time. We deserve it, boys. Let's go have our drinks. And it's camaraderie. It's like, let's get together. And that's my thing about these products, is it's taking that excuse where now I can say, yeah, let's get together, let's talk, let's celebrate, let's socialise. I want to take celebration and socialisation away from alcohol.

Yeah.

Why? Does alcohol own it?

No, it's wrong, isn't it? Alcohol owns all the occasions, the happy ones and the sad ones. Have you ever been to a funeral where there hasn't been any alcohol or a wedding? It's just everywhere. Oh, yeah, it's just.

Yeah, but that's why. It's because alcohol equals relief, it equals fun, it equals anything that we think is going to be good, but it's not at all. And it's because it has. We get that good feeling at first.

We do. Yeah, exactly. And it's a drug that has been allowed to be marketed, really, by some of the cleverest and best marketeers in the world, because the alcohol companies can afford the best marketeers in the world and they're brilliant at it. And if cocaine was marketed to us in the same way, we would all be taking cocaine and saying, it's not cocaine's fault that I feel like shit. It's not that. It's not that it's anything but. That's. We have this. Exactly. We're at the same stage that smoking was at in maybe the 1920s or something, where. Yeah. So it's changing, though. It really is changing. Like the World Health Organisation putting out that advice that there is no safe amount of alcohol to drink is the catalyst for change. I think that's going to be a real pivotal moment.

Right. Well, because I think the last statistic that I read was that it was close to 80% of non alcoholic beverage consumers are still drinking alcohol.

Yes. So people are doing this flexi drinking, aren't they? Yeah.

You know what? It's a step in the right direction. It really is really love and just really excited that we are moving towards. We're making progress. I see evolving, which is lovely.

Yeah, I agree.

For me, I personally am very lucky. I haven't ever had an addiction. But being introduced first to this as a mindful drinker, like saying how good it is that people are doing this flexi drinking. Right. Is because once you get going, I went from drinking just a little less, substitute a little more to doing it more and more and more. And it got to this point where I was like, why would I have a traditional beer? This is better. You know what I mean? I like my alcohol free beers better.

Yeah. They taste better and they don't make me ill.

I'm still out. I'm having a great time. I'm having a better time.

Yes.

I feel better the next day. I drive home all of these things, and not only is my cognition better, my memory improving, I am keeping off weight. And I think that is the gradual thing. And what more and more people are going to recognise, especially. And that's why I'm like, free consultations all day. Let me help you find the right product, because once you find those right products, you're like, yes, this is delicious. Why would I want. It is.

It's such a game changer. When I look at my attempts to moderate or to stop drinking. Well, there was a few differences with the last time that I stopped the successful time I did really properly plan and part of that planning was having the right drinks at home and I went a bit crazy. I've probably tried nearly as many as you have because I tried everything, everything on the market and then settled on a few favourites now. But I still love trying new products and there's so many. There's new products coming out every week.

Every week. Honestly, it's fun to try new things as long as you know that it's kind of generally in the direction that you would want to go. Right?

Yeah.

I know what I loved when I was drinking. I like an adult cocktail. I like something that is really robust and bold and I know when I'm in the mood for that. But then I also know when I'm like, I just want something light. I don't want something filled with this. You know what I mean? There's always days where you're like, it's taco Tuesday, give me my margarita or I want a beer. I'm craving me some yeast.

Have you got a favourite, then? Have you got a favourite non alk drink?

Yes, I do.

Tell me.

I don't believe it's in the UK anywhere, but it's called an interesting name. Like, it's the. And if you. On my link tree, if you go to my instagram intoxicated world and in my link tree, I have a discount code. But it is so entirely different from anything else on the market. It's so unique and also it is 100% extracted from plants and actually does the opposite of alcohol. It will not take away years of your life. It will add to them. It is so good for you. It doesn't have sugar or preservatives or anything bad in it. And I can mix it with the black ginger. I make espresso martinis.

Nice.

I can have espresso martini for breakfast.

Yeah.

And it's benefiting my body. The rose Bergamo. I mix it with sparkling grapefruit juice, or I mix it with, like, agave syrup and lime. I make these really flavorful, robust, adult flavoured cocktails and I'm being good. To me, it's literally benefiting me and adding years to my life because it has rishi mushroom and shoshandra berry and different barks and herbs and everything good. I have like a morning, lunch and dinner cocktail.

That is just brilliant, isn't it? You're like this sober Lush.

That is me. And I'm so lucky having been in this business and being so close to so many people over in the UK. My favourite botanical is bax botanics. I love the lemon verbena and the sea buckthorn. I love mixing it with Wilfred's. I make all kinds of different. They're. They have been one of my favourites since the very beginning and it's just very light, very refreshing, very versatile.

Have you tried crosship?

I haven't and I think it's because I can't find it here.

No, they've got one called dandy smoke, which is like. It's just so warm and, like you say, it's like a real adult taste. I suppose it's a little bit like a bourbon y sort of, but it's not trying to be alcohol. It's completely its own thing. I love that one. Absolutely love the dandy smoke.

That sounds really good.

Like you say, you all have to.

Look it up, because I know that it was one that I saw and read about. I think they even did, like, a presentation with a bunch of statistics that and then. But I've never found it over here.

Yeah. We'll have to do an exchange. Right. We'll have to get, like. I'll get a box full of my favourites that you can't get in the States and you get a box of your favourites. Yeah. We'll have to post them and hope that they get through customs because they probably look more suspicious than they really are.

Yeah.

But that'd be fun.

Amazing. They do those boxes where you can get kits from different countries, like all the different snacks and goodies from different countries.

Oh, yes.

But we just do the Na version of that. Yes.

I love it. Do you know what? There's probably a market for that. There's probably people all over the world listening, going, I want one. I want one from England and I want one from America.

Yeah. You could just do just beers.

Yeah, exactly. I could give you probably 36 different beers and every single one of them would be amazing.

Well. And you would not be so impressed with the ones in America.

Oh, really? What a shame.

I take it back. There are some. They're getting better. Untitled art. And they have so many different flavours, so they are getting better. I take it back. And I think that's one thing that's really exciting, is these NA brands for beer are typically the craft breweries, because you go to Walmart here and you go down the aisle and Budweiser has one Heineken Corona. Everyone has an NA version now. But are they.

Happy?

Yeah, they're just really not jumping on the bandwagon.

Yeah, exactly. And it does worry me a bit that they're going to push out the small guys, but we're here to prevent that from happening.

Well, the small guys taste better and anybody who tries them, they.

Yeah. And it's probably worth just mentioning the sober business network as well, which is how we joined the. You're one of the first people to join the choose Sunrise Sober business network. And it's really new. It's a really new project for both of us. But it's probably worth knowing, if you're listening, that jessa is going to be helping me with the USA side of things and helping me to make sure that we have a monthly networking meeting, which I'll be there. Don't worry, I'm still going to be there. But I just want someone stateside as well to help me with it and to help me find more people in the US who might want to join. So I'm so delighted that you've agreed to help me with that.

Honestly, I feel just. I'm honoured. I'm really mean. And we talked about this a little bit, was like, networking is so important, it makes us feel good to have camaraderie, to feel supported in this space, to have somebody to shoot around ideas with and to get even being able to say, hey, like you did the other day, I just posted this on LinkedIn. Any way you can help me with that? That's phenomenal. All of us want.

Yes.

Getting that support and then know the UK and Europe in general is very dear to my heart and being able to have that connexion is just so beautiful. And that's why I picked a time that I felt like it's accessible for anybody, mostly. I don't know about. Australia may be a little tight, but a little bit.

It's hard, isn't it?

They could still make it if they really wanted. So just making it so that we could all collaborate and talk together and help this community and this space thrive. And see, because we were talking about how distribution is such a pain and navigating that and being able to help one another and see this not grow at a snail's pace, but actually take off and help more businesses thrive.

Yeah, I agree. I've got some ideas as well. I feel as though as a collective, we're just going to be able to have so much more chance to have influence in this space and to call out some of the, frankly, quite anticompetitive behaviours that are being witnessed by some of the smaller producers and say, it's not okay. Yeah, it's really not okay.

Yeah.

Well, one of the things that, who knows what might.

I was told when I first entered the space was I was approached by people in the alcohol world and in the distribution space, and they were just like, it's so competitive, it's so cutthroat, it's just kind of toxic. And I love that in this sober community, the brands are working together, they're collaborating, they're helping one another. And that was my experience as well. Everybody was just so kind and loving and supportive and everybody was doing this from the heart, which made such a huge difference. They're not doing this. Yeah. We all want to feed our families, of course, but we're doing this because it's a passion project. Right. And they want to see a need fill a need, actually, and it just makes you feel good about the world. And as we grow, I could see a shift happening there. And we want to make sure that we're maintaining this good feeling. Right. We don't want to commercialise this to the point that it turns right into something negative.

Yeah, exactly. But it's in a beautiful place and it's such a wonderful community to be a part of and to be able to influence. I think we were saying just before we started recording that we both feel this sense of being on the brink of something really quite transformational. And it's such an exciting place to.

Be on the cusp of.

Watch this.

Yes. It's like the cusp of glory. And, I mean, it's just like something wonderful is in the works on the horizon. It's like waiting for the sunrise.

It is. Which?

I love. Your name? Choose sunrise.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. And I must finish by asking you what your favourite book is and why. Because I have to ask all my guests.

Well, I have my master's degree in creative writing and English. I am an avid reader and a lover of literature. And I sadly say that I have no favourites. I don't have a favourite movie, a favourite colour or a favourite book. However, I'm currently reading this beautiful book called the soul of money by Lynn Twist and I highly recommend it. It is not about. I mean, there is definitely some spirituality in there, but it talks about how money is this man made thing. We created this. There's cultures that don't have any money and they're living perfectly fine and perfectly happy. And it's a perspective, which I love. I love anything with a perspective. There's a lot of memoir, personal story where she shares her time. She fundraises to know places, find clean water and food, and the fight against hunger and things like that. And she has been in every space, from the lowest slums of India to the biggest mansions and people who have billions and billions of dollars, and realising that money doesn't help happiness in the big scheme of things. But, yeah, beautiful book. Highly recommend it. I love.

Yeah, yeah. I became quite fascinated by this concept of money being completely man made when I was doing my a levels, which is like college years.

Oh, you know, because you went to.

Aberdeen University, you know what an a level is. And I was doing economics and I learned that when money was first created, it was backed by gold, so you could always go to the bank and swap it for the gold that the paper represented. And that's not true anymore. And so therefore, what the hell is it? And it kind of blew my mind. It was just. It's not real. It's like numbers on spreadsheets in computers. It's not real. And I read about the awful, awful revolution in Cambodia, the Paul pot years. One of the things that happened in that revolution is that all of the bank records were kind of deleted. There was just no money. Nobody could go to the bank and get their money out. And it reset the whole country to kind of the same level. And I just think that's a really. Obviously, it's horrific things happen in that revolution. But what a lesson about what money really is as well. It has no soul, I presume, is the conclusion. Spoiler alert. The soul of money.

What's interesting even from that is we all have a money story, right? And beyond the alcohol free space, I also work as a mindset coach and I help people realise that the way you think about world and the way you think about drinking, the way you think about money, the way you think about anything, is based off of an ingrained dogma or story that you have been taught throughout your life. And so that's what you have to kind of ask yourself, what is my alcohol story? What is my money story? What is my story as a female? And what does that represent for me? All the things. Right. Anything in life. So it's getting back to that, like asking yourself and becoming self aware so that you can tackle all of these different. And navigate all of these different issues. Because we're living in a space that's filled with depression and anxiety and feeding off social media.

Yes, we have to.

With ourselves.

Yeah, it sounds like a very grounding piece of reading. I'm going to look that up and hopefully I can get it, I'm sure. But, yeah, if not, you'll have to put it in the box with all the non alcoholic beers. Love it. Yeah. And I'll return a book of mine. I'll have a look around, see what I think you'd enjoy. I'll definitely have something.

I would love it.

Book exchange. Love it. Oh, thank you so much for being my guest, Jesso. It's been such a pleasure to meet you and to chat with you and I will make sure that all of the links to untoxicated world and also to your link tree and to the spirit and the discount code, I'll make.

Sure that all of that stack I write about all of this, there's some lovely articles about the functional drinks and the different adaptogens and nootropics, the differences between alcohol removed and alternative wines, all that kind of stuff.

Perfect. Yeah. That's amazing. Oh, thank you.

So happy to be here. Thank you so much, Janet.

Thank you. Oh, thank you so much, Jessa, for being my guest. And you really must subscribe to Jessa's substack. She is such a talented writer. You can find her at Jessafrancis, all one word, substack.com. She is, like I say, fabulous writer and prolific as well, which puts out a lot of high quality content on a regular basis. And I just love reading what she has to say. So, final reminder, remember, if you are in an HR or managerial role, a leadership role within a business, head over to choose sunrise and sign up for our free HR resources and have a look in there and make a start on how you can start to think about adding alcohol into your workplace wellbeing programme. And if you need any support at all or you'd like to get on and perhaps go for that cultural audit I'm on. Hello at Choosesunrise Co. UK and I would love to hear from you. Thanks so much for listening. If you'd like to learn more about creating an alcohol safe workplace without killing the buzz, visit Choosesumrise Co. UK and head to the HR services page. Let's end this because nobody should feel afraid to ask for help with alcohol use.